Siegfried and Roy and Tigers

[GreNME]

I'm sure everyone has heard about Roy Horn getting hurt by the tiger. Just in case anyone was wondering, his doctors are optimistic. They don't know how much the damage is going to affect him, but there are very high hopes for not only survival, but at least a modicum of recovery. This makes me very happy for them, because the duo has always seemed to be very positive. (yeah... and a little flaky, but that kinda goes without saying with the business they're in)

What had me concerned as soon as I heard about the incident was the tiger who did the deed. I immediately wondered, "what's gonna happen to that thing?" As far as I could figure, I didn't think the tiger actually attacked Horn, but instead reacted instinctively to some kind of extenuating situation. Later info on the incident seems to support this. Heck, even Roy himself requested that the tiger not be put down for nearly killing him, as he was bleeding on the floor.

Now, I'm not someone who goes crazy about "animal rights" or anything like that. I'm pretty matter-of-fact about my views, and if it's a choice between an animal or a human (note: I do not count all people as "human" in this definition), the human wins every time in terms of survival. In fact, I get a little annoyed at people who are overly zealous about non-human animals, mostly because they are usually substandard with their dealings with humans, but still feel obliged to be self-righteous about anything non-human. I like many animals, and happen to not only be very good with animals, but tend to keep regular pets, and I treat them very well. I dislike hearing about anyone mistreating animals.

That said, I totally believe the tiger should not be destroyed. I think it would be stupid to put the thing down, because behaviorally, it didn't do anything wrong. It is a wild animal, no matter how long the duo had been working with it. The thing is not domesticated, and reacted just like a wild animal would in the situation it was in—it got spooked, it grabbed Roy, who had fallen, and looked for somewhere to hide. Cats are one of the most dangerous animals in the animal kingdom, and even when raised to be timid like these are, the things are still just as dangerous. They're still just as big, just as strong, and still have teeth.

I'm curious, though: who disagrees? Does anyone think the animal is any more dangerous now than it was before, and should be put down? I mean, I can agree that it should never perform again, but that's mostly because it's totally spooked now, and anxiety in such a big animal is not really a good thing to push. However, I don't see how the animal deserves to be put down for being spooked and reacting instictually. As far as I'm concerned, this is sadly one of the risks one takes when working with these kinds of animals. So, what do some others think?

By the way: I'm someone who has no fear of any domestic animals, but has the good sense to never eff with the larger of the wild animals, no matter how friendly they seem to be.

[Hobbes]

*Fully agrees with Leto*

In Colorado there were a good number instanances of bears attacking humans, and in most cases the bears were killed. I fully supported this because it is very true that when a bear kills a human, it tends to continue in this trend, and I agree that human life is far more important than animal life. There was defintly plenty of opposition, but I was for it. And the same would go for tigers in general, despite my obiviuos bias. :) A tiger that kills a human is far more likely to kill again than one that has not. If this tiger was in Siberia and came into a town and killed a person there, I would (sadly but willingly) support its termination. This tiger did not kill anyone. It did not try. It did not eat anyone (which is one of the things that makes a tiger more likely to kill another human). It was simply surprised, and acted according to instinct. Which plenty of humans do as well. Leave the tiger alone, put it in a zoo if need be but at least let it live.

Hobbes :)

[Kama]

I really don't like it when people make generalisations like this:


I'm sure everyone has heard ...

[Grey Area]

Well, not that my memory is all that clear, but don't tigers that gain a taste for humans want more? I believe in India they have to put down tigers for this.

And that tiger got a pretty good taste of Roy, I'd say!

[GreNME]

Are you saying you didn't hear about it, Kama? <_<

And eslaine, I don't think the tiger got a very good taste of Horn at all. It just dragged him backstage, it didn't take a bite out of him. And the "taste for humans" thing applies to more than tigers, and it's less to do with "taste" and more to do with "aren't afraid of any more." In the case of this tiger, though, the problem is that it will likely be more afraid now, because it reacted in fear and then got reprimanded. So, while I totally agree it isn't fit to perform any more (never trust a nervous cat), it's not going to turn into a man-eater from the experience. If that were the case, I would understand putting it down. From all the accounts I've heard of the incident, it doesn't sound like the tiger was trying to feed.

At the very least, I support following Horn's request of not putting the tiger down. It's his tiger to begin with.

[Kama]

yes.

[Grey Area]

Well then. I have to agree.

Are we able to get tigers to breed in captivity? I guess that would be a good thing, then.

[GreNME]

:) Okay, I apologize for assuming that you had heard of it, Kama. Roy Horn, form the illusionist duo "Siegfried and Roy," was nearly killed in an incident involving one of their tigers, where he fell and the tiger dragged him backstage by his neck. As he was being treated, he asked that the tiger not be killed for its behavior, and the tiger has been quarantined since then. Roy Horn is still being treated, and will probably not be able to perform again, because the damage is thought to be severe enough to hamper his ability to perform. Despite that, the doctors are saying that the little communication they can have with the man gives them the impression that he's optimistic. So far, the duo's show has been indefinitely cancelled, and there is not a great deal of hope for them performing again, with or without the tigers.

Sorry for assuming that you had heard about it.

[Kama]

Are you sure you apologised enough?

[Starla*]

The tiger should not be put down: it didn't do anything wrong, just reacted like a scared wild animal. Of course, everyone else has reiterated this all ready.

Unfortunately, in this country, wild animals are put down for reacted as they should. My family spends a lot of time in the Smoky Mountains of eastern Tennessee (I haven't been there in over 5 years, but that's another story). They get a newsletter from the park, and every few months there's soemthing in there about a black bear being put down because some idiot human decided to feed it (there are signs all over the parks not to do this), cornered it, got too close to a cub, threw things at it (there are signs for that, too), etc etc. The bear gets scared and attacks the person, and the bear gets put down. One case, two years ago, a bear was attacked by a group of people in the Cades Cove section of the park becuse it attacked a fawn. Around the same time, a bear was put down because some dumb teenagers thought it was a good idea to surround it.

The list goes on....

The only case where I would agree to put a wild animal down would be if had attacked a human because it was sick---a good example would be the bear (also in Tennessee, poss. North Carolina) that attacked and ate a woman because it was very sick and deranged (if an animal can be mentally deranged...).

But for a wild animal attacking a human because it is reacting as wild animals do---it does not deserve to be put down.

God, I need to learn to paraphrase.........

[David Bowles]

Is putting Roy down an option?

Seriously, no, the tiger shouldn't be killed, not unless it grabs another man's head. Then we kill it. The tiger, not the head.

[celia60]

ok, first off, nobody mention that tiger cookie crack i made.

second off, david, i miss you. has your insatiable chatterbox of a daughter passed along any of my greetings and good will?

ok, we now return you to your regularly scheduled insufferable programming.

[PatrickDarwinPoyfair]

Why does this whole Seigfried and Roy Tiger attack make me chuckle every time someone brings it up?

Why does the image of a frantic gay magician beating off a tiger with a microphone, who is then grabbed by the neck by said Tiger who then drags Roy offstage make me giggle?

(And after re-reading that above phrase again, perhaps I understand better. Anyone know where Moose is?)

:blink:

[Starla*]

Pat, your sufficient description of the incident has put me into a fit of giggles as well.

But then again, so did the cover of People magazine in the check out line at my job. Had something about this incident on it---something about the tiger and "what made it turn against it's master" or something really stupid like that. Animals gone wild part 658, featuring drunken frat boys...and tigers attacking flamboyant men...
To me---that stuff is the schizer de la schizer of news writing. Stupid sensationalist crap...

[Glynn]

I'd like to take this opportunity to point out that you can be a tiger-bot, however, you will die in the first wave of the robot rebellion!

Viva los Robotos!

-Glynn who has the strength of 5 gorillas, x-ray vision and is 5' tall.

[Nick]

Does Glynn=Primal Curve?

[Kayla]

Eww.

Las Vegas neurosurgeon Lonnie Hammargren said about one-fourth of the right side of the Siegfried & Roy star's skull was removed to relieve cranial pressure in the crucial hours after the Oct. 3 attack. He said Horn suffered a "pretty big stroke" but that his paralysis might only be temporary.

The removed portion of the skull can then be surgically placed in the abdomen or frozen until it can be replaced, Hammargren said. He said he was told Horn's skull had been implanted in a pouch in Horn's abdomen.

Hammargren confirmed that Horn suffered a stroke and was paralyzed on the left side after the tiger attacked his neck.

Okay, didn't need to know that his skull was in a sac in his stomach, but thanks for the visual.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...tack_magician_3 (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20031016/ap_on_en_ot/tiger_attack_magician_3)